Level Up Your Course Podcast with Janelle Allen: Create Online Courses that Change Lives

LUYC 111: Impacting Lives with the Magic of Music with David Charrier

Episode Summary

What’s up, family? In this episode, we have David Charrier, multi-instrumentalist, handpan enthusiast, and founder of the online school, Master the Handpan. I love watching my students blossom in their musical journey As a musician, David has always been passionate about rhythms and melodies. In 2004, he discovered a unique-looking percussion instrument called the handpan. After traveling to host handpan masterclasses, David created Master the Handpan to bring the joys of the handpan right into students’ homes. He’s now taught more than 3,000 people with his online program. With easy-to-watch, easy-to-follow video lessons, students can now learn how to play the handpan in a simple and fun way. Tune in to hear how David created Master the Handpan, what he’s learned since its launch, and courses to check out to begin our own musical journey.

Episode Notes

What’s up, family? In this episode, we have David Charrier, multi-instrumentalist, handpan enthusiast, and founder of the online school, Master the Handpan. 

I love watching my students blossom in their musical journey

As a musician, David has always been passionate about rhythms and melodies. In 2004, he discovered a unique-looking percussion instrument called the handpan. After traveling to host handpan masterclasses, David created Master the Handpan to bring the joys of the handpan right into students’ homes. He’s now taught more than 3,000 people with his online program. With easy-to-watch, easy-to-follow video lessons, students can now learn how to play the handpan in a simple and fun way. Tune in to hear how David created Master the Handpan, what he’s learned since its launch, and courses to check out to begin our own musical journey. 


Episode Quotes

"The problem for learners is frustration."

"Having course levels give learners something to aspire to. It motivates them to keep going."

"Put yourself in your student's shoes."

"Students get stuck if you are not good... We are more than just teachers, we are also coaches."

"Time is something we cannot buy so we need to maximize the time we have.”


Listen to Learn

00:54 - Getting to know David, Rapid 5 Questions

02:59 - What is a handpan? How did Master the Handpan start?

13:32 - Pros of having course levels

17:19 - First steps in course creation 

21:07 - Structuring the course content and David's teaching process 

29:58 - What to include as YouTube video vs. course video

37:44 - Awesome things coming up from David


Connect with David

Master the Handpan


Follow David on Twitter! 


Looking for the Transcript?

Episode 111


Grab the bonus segment!

We dig even further into Master the Handpan, and David graces us with with an incredible song on his handpan.

Grab it here: https://get.zencourses.co/extra  

Episode Transcription

**David Charrier**: And sometimes we're like, okay, I know I'm going to teach the groove one to groove two, groove three. I make sure everything is digestible, so I think about how I'm going to teach it, so I really put myself into their shoes and I never assume they know what I'm going to teach.

**Janelle Allen**: Welcome to Level Up Your Course, where we pull back the curtain on what it takes to create learning that transforms lives. You will hear stories from business owners like you who share their success and their struggles. This is not where you come to hear passive income myths, friend. This is where you learn the truth about building a profitable learning platform. I am your host, Janelle Allen, and this is today's episode.

Hey everyone. Today I am speaking with David Charrier, musician, teacher and blogger. He is also the founder of MastertheHandPan.com which we are going to discuss today. David, welcome to the show.

**DC**: Hey Janelle, thank you so much. Hi everyone. So cool to be here.

**JA**: Yeah, so David is, ah, maybe you picked up from the accent; he's joining us from France. Toulouse, correct?

**DC**: I cannot hide that accent, sorry.

**JA**: No, I love it. So we have a tradition on the show. We kick things off with the rapid five five quick questions to help listeners get to know you. Are you ready?

**DC**: I'm ready.

**JA**: Okay. What did you have for breakfast?

**DC**: Just some marmalade and bread.

**JA**: Okay. Very French. What is your favorite film of all time?

**DC**: My favorite film of all time? Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

**JA**: Ah, yes. Yes. Okay. Number three. This is a very serious question, David. So just let's take a moment and prepare. So the zombie apocalypse has hit and you have six minutes to grab three essential items to get you through to help you survive. Not people. All of your loved ones are okay. Six minutes to grab three items. What do you pick?

**DC**: Okay, so I need kind of a big wooden things. You know, baseball, a stick. I need my handpan in case I want to play a little bit of music. Try that first before kicking them. And food.

**JA**: I love it. I especially love the spin on playing the music to see if that suits them before you have to fight and kill the undead. All right. Number four, finish this sentence. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a blank.

**DC**: The best guitar player in the world.

**JA**: Number five, what is the hardest lesson you have learned as an entrepreneur so far?

**DC**: Don't try to do everything.

**JA**: Yup, definitely. That's a good one and it's a hard one to learn. Yeah. So speaking of you as an entrepreneur, can you share your entrepreneurial journey? How did you get to this place that where we know you now as the teacher and creator of Master the Handpan, where did you start and how did you get here?

**DC**: It's an amazing journey, honestly, because nothing was really planned. So I started playing the beautiful instrument back in 2004 I was one of the very first French guy who got this instrument. It all started in 2001 and by 2004 there was only a few, a few handpans out available. So I just started to play, play again and again and just to practice to learn everything as I could from this instrument.

So for many years, maybe from 2004 to 2008 I was practicing then I was touring a lot, playing a lot of concerts in the U.S., China, Europe, everywhere. That was cool. And I always loved sharing with others what I was learning. So that was really part of me, you know, when I was meeting someone, Hey, what do you know? Let me show you what I learned that share. And so I really discovered that I loved teaching the hand pan and then I started just to travel and do some workshops, a lot of workshops, and I was a bit tired. I got married and two friends of mine, they told me, David, you are traveling too much. You should slow down first for your wife. That was wise. I knew that. I knew I had to slow down. But it's not that easy when you're making money with your music, you know, traveling and teaching. Yeah. And they told me, David, we read a wonderful book about online course and stuff. You should film everything that you know and sell it online. I was like, 'Guys, really?' Yeah. They told me do one of your workshop in front of the camera, split it in different videos and tried to put that online.

So I spent hours trying to understand how to do all this. And 2016 I released my first online course. It was a big boomer cause you know all these years I gather a lot of emails and a lot of followers and people following what I was doing. So I already had a bunch of people are ready for that.

**JA**: Yeah. So you already had an email list and I'm assuming you already had your YouTube channel before you launched the course. Cause I checked out some videos.

**DC**: Yeah. And I have been so lucky I think with the algorithm of YouTube because honestly, you know who helped me the most? Ricky Martin, you know Richard Martin singer? This is funny. One day I woke up and one of my videos got like 300 thousands views and we found out that it has been reposted by Ricky Martin.

**JA**: I love it. That's funny.

**DC**: And from that video I gained a lot of exposure and I am, I started to do a newsletter for my album. It wasn't newsletter for my music, not for my teaching. But then when I decided to do some online courses, I just created a landing page. It was a little lead magnet and I said, Hey, I think it's my biggest project ever. Sign up and you will get notified. I'm going to do online courses because I cannot say yes to all the demands. I have four lessons.

**JA**: So I have a question because you make it sound so simple. How did you know to do things like have a newsletter? You sound very savvy, that you were very web savvy. Was that just something that you had always been interested in on the side of learning, having a newsletter, landing pages and all of that?

**DC**: Yeah. So I knew all that cause I was seeing that from some other musicians and stuff. So, and I'm a web guy. I like to go online and check what everyone does and stuff. So I knew it was cool to have a newsletter so that when you have a crowdfunding going on or you just have a new album on the way, you can just let the people know. So I knew all these little simple things like newsletter or landing page or website. But I didn't know all the tools that now I discovered and I'm using. But it was very simple. But it sounds simple but I mean it's like 10 years of being um, how to say, intentional to put intention in everything you do. I've always loved teaching, sharing, promoting what I was doing. So I think it's just this 10 years of traveling and being a friendly, caring of people, sharing with them.

**JA**: Yes. I love that you said that because so often we see the end result, we see where people are now and we think, Oh they have it all together. They've figured it out and we don't see the 10 years as you said, of taking intentional, deliberate action and just continuing to go.

A friend of mine, the way that he just recently put it on Twitter, you know, he said that a lot of people call it entrepreneurship. They think of it as a race and he said it's really a long walk and I love that because when you find something that you enjoy and you decide to be deliberate about it, it does feel like you're taking this long walk. But a lot of people are constantly looking at it from the standpoint of a race and getting to the finish line and they don't see all of the walking that you've been doing.

**DC**: Yeah, and we should share more of the past and all these things goes online. You only show what you want on your Facebook when you talk with people. You want me to show and talk about the results where you are right now and it's very interesting what you're seeing that we should share. We should show them that behind us there's many years of online presents and many years of work.

**JA**: Yes. And also, you know, all of the good stuff. You're right. Because not only do we just share where we are, but we often only curate and we share the wins and the pretty moments instead of talking about, Oh, I just, I messed up this time and I'm learning [inaudible] all of that good stuff. So yeah. Thank you for sharing a bit more about your journey.

So you know, we've mentioned that you play the handpan. What is a hand pan for those who don't know?

**DC**: Okay. So if you've never seen a handpan, it looks like an UFO actually. It's kind of a UFO shaped or would say, two woks, you know where you cook noodles, you say wok, wok. Stuck together. So there's a, yeah, kind of two shells, UFO shape, two shells. So one shell on the top has some notes, all those little dimples. And the bottom shell is just to complete the instrument. So it's a percussion, melody percussion. I think the best way to describe it, it's kind of an inverted steel pan. You know, there's children from Trinidad. I would say it's an inverted still drum.

**JA**: That's where I've seen them. You know, when I was looking at your videos, I thought there's something familiar about this instrument when you just said that. I have seen those steel pans that are in, you know, the Caribbean and Trinidad especially. That's exactly. Okay. And then there's another one that you just launched some training on called the Rav.

**DC**: his, yeah, it's the handpan cousin. This one is more, we call it a tongue drum. You have some laser cuts and it resonates just because of some little parsel of steel that resonates. Does that make sense?

**JA**: Yeah, it does. Okay.

**DC**: It's impossible to describe it. It's better to have a look at it and to listen.

**JA**: Yeah. I'm just curious. You were a musician before you started playing the handpan?

**DC**: I have always struggled to be full time in the music. I think I was scared in the beginning and then, uh, like two years I was full time making a living with it. Then I'd go back to do some other job. I was a nurse's aid and then I was full time for three, four years. Since then. Uh, yeah. I mean it was always back and forth, you know? It's hard to have steady incomes with gigs is really, you need to have a lot of network or to have big, big, big gigs, especially in France and Europe.

**JA**: And it is scary.

**DC**: It's very making the leap.

**JA**: Okay. So let's talk about Master the Handpan. The first thing I want to know is what was the motivation for creating, I know you said that you just realize you couldn't teach as much -- is that really where it came from? And your friend said, Hey David, you need to --

**DC**: Yeah, I was tired and there was this demand. A lot of demands. While I was running, I was doing some Skype lessons, some individual and group workshops, traveling in many countries. I was just tired and also a lot of demand. I've got a lot of requests for lessons and I was like, I need to find a to cover that increasing demand. That's how I decided to do these online thing.

**JA**: So what did Master the Handpan look like when you started? Was it just one course? What did it look like and what year was it that you launched it?

**DC**: So I launched this the end of 2016. And so cheap camera, cheap everything, you know, like my 200 euros camera, no lights, you know, just lights, you have at home, not professional light. And I just shot my workshop but I just pleaded to have some really digestible bites, you know, so five to eight minutes maximum. So I just divided my whole workshop into different sections and I shoved that. So it was one course, one platform, very easy. And the one that you mean service, I started to train myself on ConvertKit.

**JA**: Okay. And then what does MastertheHandpan.com look like now?

**DC**: Now four people in the team, a lot of courses. So I did a course for beginners, intermediates. Then I started to do some course with some friends, you know, looking for some experts, sharing the contents. It's also really dynamic. So for example, music theory, I shared that it was a conservatory, a teacher friend of mine. And this last summer I invited the top 10 world players. I invited them in the studio one by one and we shot their masterclass, so I have the new course already.

**JA**: I love it. You know, one of the things that, I'm not sure if you're into jazz, but I interviewed a jazz musician. His name is Bob Reynolds. It's been a little while, maybe about a year. He said something that I, I'd love to find out how you approached it. He said that he doesn't separate his content up by levels. He focuses on the process for how to learn how to play the saxophone. And the way that it's structured is that, you know, it's applicable to every level, but I noticed that you do divide things up by levels. Can you talk about that decision and how you teach people who are at different points?

**DC**: Very interesting. I so understand his way of thinking and doing. I think I don't agree. Let's give it a try. I hope I'll make myself understood... The problem for learners is frustration. So usually people, when they were going to some workshops and either you feel that everyone is like beginners and you feel like, Hey, come on, I gave you my money and it doesn't match my need and all these people are slowing me down. So that's the first feeling if you're not in the right group, the right level. That's what I observe at some workshops. This guy was really rocking the instrument. He was waiting for more and more and more and I wanted to have everyone with me. So this guy was alone.

Or, second thing you observe is people who feel that they are slowing down everyone. Yeah. You know, they jumped into the intermediate course and they are beginners and they're all like, Oh, I'm so sorry. It's taking me much more time than you guys. I'm slowing down the whole group. Sorry. Sorry. Since I don't want to let anyone slide, I was frustrated, they were frustrated. So I was like, I should really sort the people out by levels. I also enjoy this process thing that Bob was saying because I think you can take everyone and just push them to a very high level, but people who buy, they need to make sure it matches there needs and that they are in the right classroom in the right. How do you say -- in the right thing.

Yeah, so I think it's more because of the people then because of me, but I observed that people, they have a level and every one, if you ask her hand, Ben players, he would say, I'm a beginner. If you just got the instrument or if you're not playing that much. Someone who has the instrument two or three years already. He has a few rhythms and patterns and stuff. He would say I'm intermediate. And the guy who released an album, he has done a few gigs in his town and stuff, he would say, I'm...

**JA**: The thing I like about levels and the way that you describe it as it also gives the learners something to aspire to and it motivates them to keep going. And it helps to set the parameter for this is what I'm learning and I want to get to the next level.

**DC**: Yeah. And I want them to step up to the next level and to fall in another case. And I know it's not that clear cause you know, some people, they are beginners but they don't want to admit it. You know, this guy, he got the instrument two or three years ago and he's like, I'm not a beginner. I'm an intermediate. But he's not, he's not an intermediate, he's a beginner. And some people are very modest, you know, and they still think they are beginners, whereas they are intermediate. So I think I decided to split in two levels just to have this progression like, Hey, you're beginners, let's step up to the next level. And also cause people they want to invest and to make sure the content is matching their needs.

**JA**: So when it comes time for you to create a new course or when you created, kind of maybe thinking back to when you started creating more courses for Master the Handpan, how do you approach course creation?

**DC**: So before creating a course I make sure people need it. I have an email that I send, you know, to people, Hey by the way, what are your two main difficulties when learning the handpan? You know that's my first email. When someone up for free lessons or stuff, I always have this email, what are you struggling with? And so they are answering, cause it's a really short form, you know, Google form. And so I receive a lot of info from the people and so you know, I just look at that Google sheet and I'm like wow they are all struggling with being steady, being on the beat, or, wow, they all want to learn Oriental kind of music. So let's do a bundle about Oriental groups. Let's do a bundle, how to stay on the beats or if they are struggling with -- I don't know. You know, so I can really create the content that they need. Sometimes I have something in mind, but yeah, I'm not sure they would love it.

**JA**: Yeah, I was just agreeing with you. It's what I call validation and I love that you said it because that's something that anyone who is listening will -- who's on my newsletter -- will know that I say this all the time and I find that some people are resistant to asking those questions. So I love that you said that because the power of it is exactly what you shared. It gives you all of this information. So many course creators struggle when they're starting out, they're thinking about it backwards. In other words, they're saying, well, what should I create? And the way that you explained it is you don't have to rack your brain and struggle and stress out. You just look at your list of responses and -- I don't know if you do it the way that I approached it. I look for kind of the cream that rises to the top, right? The thing that most people are saying and then creating something on that and the most painful thing as well as something that I look for. So it makes it so much easier. So I just, I got excited. I didn't mean to interrupt, but I got excited when you said that.

**DC**: Yeah, and it's the same for blogging. I don't want to blog just for blogging. I want to answer questions. So, Hey, what are your questions about the instrument? How to take care of it, how to prevent from rust, where to store it, where to tune it If it's ever gets out of tune -- what do you want? What do you need? So I'm making sure I answer some question they really ask. And for example, I'm about to create a course about some typical groups, so I'm going to just send a little form. Hey, do you like drum and bass? Hip hop? Oriental rhythms? They will click, and I just look where I have the most clicks. Okay, let's do a hip hop bundle. My top 10 a hip hop grooves on your handpan.

**JA**: I cannot even imagine what that sounds like. I'm going to save that. I'm going to ask you if you'll play something later, but we'll come back to that because now I'm intrigued cause I don't know if you know this but I DJ and so I spin a lot of hip hop and some like, hip hop beats on the hand pan? What does that soundlike? Okay, cool. So for everyone listening, check out the bonus segment, we're going to get some live performance.

Okay. So we've talked about, you know, how you approached creating a course. You mentioned that you make sure that there's demand for it. So once you find out that there is demand, what does it look like when you sit down to create the content?

**DC**: Okay, that's very important. You have the idea, you know what they want. Now you need to structure your curriculum. And sometimes we're like, okay, I know I'm going to teach the groove one to groove two, groove three, I make sure everything is digestible. So I think about how I'm going to teach it. So I really put myself into their shoes and I never assume they know what I'm going to teach.

So for example, I'm going to say, Hey guys, here's the groove I'll be teaching you. So I play the groove so that they can feel it and stuff and then I break it down for them and I just show them all the different techniques I'm using in this groove. And if I ever do a movement, I never assume they know it. So I just break it down. Look, I'm doing this and that and I repeat things. I never assume that they will pick it up quickly. And that's what people really like is when you really take their hands. Honestly, they want to be taken by hands. So I make sure I know all the grooves. Let's speak about this hip hop bundle, which is not created yet. I will think about my 10 grooves. I will think about some variations, some different to give it a bit of spice. Am I make sure I have four videos for each groove. Like let's learn the groove flats, you know without any notes and stuff. Then let's have melody than variation one, variation two, and then one last video go further where I just open doors and I show them what they can do with it and blah blah blah.

That's the course itself and then I work on the before and after. On the before I have a little presentation -- Hi guys, welcome in. This groove about hiphop here is the instrument I'm playing with, here is the looper I'm using here is this and that. I give them some links and stuff, so I have always this little section in the beginning where I explain where are they are -- you are in my course, I repeat who I am, why I am doing this, blah blah blah. I explaine the curriculum. I give them some advices. I have a few key principles like take your time, be disciplined, don't be frustrated. Just turn that into motivation and stuff and then they can enter the the first groove. You know I don't like when it all starts with a, Hi, everyone. This is David. Here's the first grove. This is horrible.

**JA**: Yeah. So you ease them into it by having kind of an intro so that everyone is on the same page, understands, and then you get into it.

**DC**: Yes, cause I want to motivate them to finish this course. So I really want to set this state of mind and this motivation and I give them a lot of little goodies and stuff. Here is the list of the metronome apps I'm using. Also, don't forget there is my blog, there is my this and that. Also there's the this private group, they can join on Facebook because it's not on the online course. It's also a community of learners, blah, blah blah.

Because honestly, let's speak about business. First of all, I want them to love their instrument. That's my goal. Second, I want them to finish the course cause then they will buy another one. So I really need to make sure I give them all the tools to be able to go through all these lessons with success. This is why, aside of that, I send them a few emails, Hey, how are you doing? Are you struggling with something? On Tuesday I will have a Q and A for the groove number two. I will have a Q and A. So prepare your groove two and show me that blah blah blah. I do some challenge, some contests and stuff.

**JA**: So you mentioned, you know, 'Are you struggling?' is one of the questions that you ask. Where do students get stuck? Let's talk about beginners, maybe it makes it a little bit easier.

**DC**: Okay, so they get stuck if you're not good. So when I first shot of these lessons, for sure I forgot so many things, never wait your course to be perfect to release it. So I discovered they needed more time on that. A guy told me and many of them in the beginning, Hey, would you practice it a bit longer? You know, I'm doing four run of the pattern, full bars each, blah, blah blah. And they wanted me just to perform it longer. So what I said, I said, okay guys, you can download different tracks with different BPM so you can follow me for three minutes on each groove, on each BPM. So I tried to improve my course by following their feedback. But usually students, they struggle -- I mean it's 90% their fault -- I'm going to explain -- and 10% my phone. So 10% is me. I didn't take enough time on do some that. And 90% of the time is that they started something and they don't finish. So I need to motivate them on their life organization --

**JA**: -- and habits.

**DC**: Exactly. So my best way to help my students to go through the course is maybe to write an article on how Netflix can kill your progres. You know what I mean?

**JA**: Yes, I do.

**DC**: Because I'm sure the problem is Netflix! The problem is scrolling your phone in your bed. The problem is not being well organized. The problem is self-esteem, country dance, blah, blah, blah.

**JA**: Yeah, that's so true. It's something that, you know, I've talked about this on the show before, but my group program, it's called Finish Your Damn Course, and when I first taught it, I did not address habits or any, you know, there were some people who did well and then there were others that I noticed they started and they just didn't finish. They just -- and I realized, ah ha. The thing is habits. And so I added a module, the very first module that everyone goes through now is on habits and journaling, identifying your poor work habits so that you can then see them when they pop up later. And that has been so -- it's not only been super valuable, everyone who does it loves it because it makes them aware, Oh, you know, I'm sitting in the bed watching Netflix and I could be doing such and such, or I'm checking email 15 times a day. But also it's an indicator that I've noticed as a teacher that whoever finishes that module, they're going to finish the program and they're typically going to be successful. And the people who don't finish or just do a little bit of it and never come back, write it off, they're going to do the same thing with the program. Habits are so important. So I love that you said that. It's interesting that as a musician you're still taking that into account because there are a lot of musicians who teach that don't, they just teach the music.

**DC**: Hmm. We're more than teachers. I'm more than the handpan teachers. I try also to be a coach. I wouldn't say your life coach, you know? I have a bit of belly, you know, I cannot teach them, like, go to gym or I'm not really life coach and a health coach, but it's more than a handpan.

I want them to enjoy their instrument. They've been saving money for it. They've been on waiting lists, waiting for their instrument. They put aside some time, some money. Now they got their baby. There is this, you know, these honeymoon period where, wow, I have my handpan, it sounds so cool. All my friends all like, wow. But then boom, you know, there's these little drop. The motivation goes down and I want to help them to grab their instrument and enjoy it, but we need to help them on more than just the skills. Show them the discipline and discipline is fun. That's something if my students are listening to this podcast, they are smiling because I'm always saying discipline is fun. A lot of people are doing things for fun and some people tell me, David, I don't like course I don't like to have a teacher. I just want to play for fun. Those people are forgetting. That was discipline was lessons was practice. You will have way more fun.

I'm always using that analogy was a painter. You guys are painters with one brush, two colors and you're like, I want to paint for fun. Okay, enjoy your two colors and your brush. But we, the teacher was online course you will have different brushes, a lot of colors and then you will have fun. But I mean discipline and fun go hand in hand. So I'm teaching a lot as talking a lot about discipline.

**JA**: I love that. I love it. I want to ask you one more question before we get down to the final three. And that is -- you mentioned, you know how you approach your videos in the course, but you also have a very successful YouTube channel. And I noticed when I was checking out your YouTube channel, one of the things that I loved about your videos is, typically when the video starts, you get right into it. There's not this, you know, two minute explanation about what we're going to learn in this, that and the third. So tell me how you approach video four, your YouTube channel. And also this is a popular question that I get -- how do you make the distinction on what you're going to deliver for free on YouTube versus what becomes a course?

**DC**: Yeah, and I'm right into that at the moment cause I'm about to launch a course and I was talking with my mates, Hey, what do we give for free? What do we put on YouTube? So first half of your question is how do I do with my YouTube channel? As you said, I'm not talking a lot cause people are bored about talking. So for my online course, I would separate the talking. I have this video, one is introduction to the section and I talk -- blah, blah, blah. In this section we're going to work on hand independence. The goal is this, the goal is that I always show them the goal of everything. It's going to be useful. You will see it in your playing, blah, blah, blah. And then next video, Hey, let's start with this groove. Boom, I played and then I break it down. Or let's start with this exercise.

On YouTube, I don't talk too much. You know the statistics, right? After 30 seconds you lost already 60% of your audience. I think the average on YouTube is one minute, 20 seconds. And maybe some people, they put your video and they went to the toilets. That statistics can be even not correct because a lot of people, they put your video and then they just go and do something else. So people's attention is very short. They decide to listen to you in four seconds.

If you put a podcast the way the person is introducing it, if you read a blog, the very first line, everything is so quick so you need to bring them into the thing right away.

And about the second half of your question, I'm really trying to give a lot. I give, I give, I give a lot of videos. I was afraid in the beginning until I realized people need to know you. They need to see the transformation before they buy, so I'm not giving like the very first half of the first video, I'm giving four videos. At the end of these four videos, you will rock this groove with some variation from a to Z and it's a bit of content. It's part my full curriculum, but I put on YouTube a full pattern with variations, a lot of contents for free and then they will hear me.

My accent is, my accent is good enough. They will see how I teach. They will see the content and they will see the transformation. If they don't have time to have the transformation, they won't buy the course.

For example, if I ever want to make sushi at home and I just look at the first video, which is about how to cook the rice properly and then if you want to make sushi, buy the course. I'm like, dude, I don't even know how to make the rice. I need to eat sushi, I need to show my sushi I learned from you to my friends. I need to cook them sushi. My friends will say, wow, David, your sushis are amazing. And then I will buy your stuff.

So the guy cannot only teach sushi, you need to have a full course. We're going to see how to cook this sushi, these ones, name roles and a lot of stuff. And so he is going to teach me for free just the sushi, which is just one section of his course about Asian food, let's say. So if I only know how to cook the rice, I will be like, nah. But if from zero to the end, I learned how to cook sushi and I try them, they were good, my friends were like, this is good -- I'll be like, this guy is a real cook and I'm going to follow him because I saw the transformation.

**JA**: Yes. It's giving them a win.

**DC**: Yeah, a win and same for music. If they learn this pattern from zero till the end they will play a bit of handpan was a glass of wine, you know with friends, blah blah blah and their friends will be like wow Bob, you play so well. This song is so cool and the guy will see, yeah it's good. The teacher is good so I'm going to follow now all his other stuff.

**JA**: Yes, I love that because you know as I said it's giving them a win but also to bring it back to the context of the question that comes up all the time that people are concerned about is how do I know what to give away and make sure I don't give away too much. And the way you explained it is so good. I've always just said, well pull out one lesson or one learning element from your course and then give them that. But I love the way that you explained it because if you think about one of your courses on Master the Handpan, it's one pattern, but there's so much more if they take the full course. But if you pull out one pattern, they learn how to do something. They see how you teach transformative transformation. And then when they want more, you know, when their friends are saying, Oh that was so wonderful. And they're thinking, Oh okay, well I got to learn how to play some other things and cause that felt good.

**DC**: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And there are two ways to do this. And I tried both. Sometimes I was like, I'm going to give a bit of all my sections. For example, we have some warmups, some coordination exercises, some grooves, some hand independence and some ear training exercises. So either I give one exercise of everything so they see what I'm covering in the whole curriculum, And they'll be like, wow, he's really teaching a lot of things and it's cool. Just this little teaser of everything. I'm excited. Or you don't show how the section, you sell it one section. And you almost give it all, almost, and people will be like, wow, I learned so many things. And then they see the curriculum he has also teaching on this, on that independence, coordination grooves, blah blah blah. It should be good cause that section was so good. So the rest should be okay. You know what I mean?

**JA**: Yeah, yeah. Has one of those methods been more successful for you than the other?

**DC**: I tried to do both. Let me explain that. I tried to select in all my sections some videos where at the end you have something really, you have something, so I'm not giving a little bite. That is frustrating. So I select two videos of each section. For example, my free trial has eight videos for free and the full course as 70 videos. But I made sure of these eight videos were covering everything I'm teaching, but each video was give you a real transformation. You really go back with your friends and you can really show them something. You really learned something.

So people would have to find the right ratio -- and that also is really interesting. How do you devise and structure your course? Because if you only do part A, B, C, D, you need to give four videos for the people to have the transformation.

**JA**: I love how you put that and I think that everyone listening, there's two different methods that David just shared with you. So if you struggling on what to include for free, you've got a couple of ideas there.

So David, we are down to the final three questions. The first one is easy. What is next for you? Anything exciting coming up?

**DC**: A baby.

**JA**: Congratulations.

**DC**: 19 days remaining. So that's my biggest release ever. And this project I just told you, I have now opened the doors to uh, other players. You know, now I have a lot of emails, a lot of exposure. Now people felt like, Hey, can I have my master class on your platform? So I needed to grow that business to attract them. So opening the doors to other teachers. That's my next step. It's called Learn from the Best. And I have a 10 top players really to be online.

**JA**: I love it. Okay. And where can people find out more about you and your work?

**DC**: The best is just to go on three-w MastertheHandpan.com and from there you will access to the blog to free exercises and blah blah blah resources if you're interested about all things handpan.

**JA**: Yeah. And we'll be sure to get the links to everything that you do in the show notes. Okay. Last question. What's your why? Why

did you get up and do this work each day?

**DC**: Because time is what you cannot buy and I want to have time for other things. Does that make sense?

**JA**: Tell me a little more.

**DC**: Okay. So I'm a pastor here in France. We're in a team, we plant churches and so I need to set time apart for that. So I try to have different things in my life. I'm the pastor, I have this online business and also I wanted to take time for other things, enjoying time with friends and wife and now coming soon the baby. So yeah, time is something we can have buy, so we need to maximize the time we have. So online courses really helped me not to work full time for my business and to have free time for other things.

**JA**: Yeah. Okay. David, thank you so much. I am excited about the bonus segment to hear a bit of your playing, but thank you so much for sharing how you plan and create your courses.

**DC**: Oh, thank you so much for welcoming me here and I listen to some of your podcasts. Thank you so much for what you're doing for all these content creators, so thank you. Thank you.

**JA**: Hey family. I hope that you enjoyed that interview with David. You know I, what can I say? I love connecting with musicians and David did not disappoint. Such a thoughtful educator and just an all around great person.

If you want to connect with David to learn more about his work, check out the show notes. You can find them ZenCourses.co/111 for episode 111. Again, ZenCourses.co/111. You'll find a recap plus links to check out David's work.

Okay, let's talk about bonuses. If you listened to the entire interview, you know that David graced us with some wonderful playing of the handpan so -- and we did a video so you can check out the video and listen to his wonderful musicianship by heading to get.ZenCourses.co/EXTRA. Again that's get.ZenCourses.co/extra if you are on your desktop or laptop.

Or if you're on your phone, you've got a solution for you as well. Simply text EXTRAEXTRA, all one word, E, X, T, R, A, E, X, T, R, A to the number 44222. Once again, text E, X, T, R, A, E, X, T, R, A, EXTRAEXTRA to the number 44222.

You will get a link to watch the bonus video and you'll also, at that same link, get access to all of the previous bonus videos from the podcast. You'll also be added to my email list so you can get free content and updates about online courses, email marketing, and just general content that I share. Okay. That is my time and I will see you next time.

All right, my friends, that is my time. Remember before you can level up your course, you must first level up your mind. As always, thank you for hanging out with me for another great episode. I do not take it for granted. I am Janelle Allen, and this has been Level Up Your Course. Peace!