Hey family! This week’s episode is the live interview from my workshop with Charlie GIlkey, logistics expert turned executive coach, author, and founder of Productive Flourishing. He’s here to talk about his new book, Start Finishing, and how you can finally finish all of those projects you’ve been wanting to dig into. All great ideas don't matter. What matters is our execution, our ability to pull them into light, ship them in the marketplace, and make the difference that they are going to make. Before becoming an executive coach, Charlie worked in the Army as a Joint Force Military Logistics Coordinator, where he mastered the skills of planning and strategizing. In his book, Start Finishing, he shares his expertise and the 9-step method to re-align your life with the things that matters most. Charlie believes that we’re all meant to do our best work, and a core piece of that is finishing what we start. The strategies in his book help creatives work through three major emotions that hold them back (overwhelm, exasperation, and regret) so they can live the life they want, do the work they love, and start finishing. Episode Quotes “The main thing that we have to focus on as creatives is not tasks, but projects.” "For me, planning is a creative process; strategy making is a creative process." "In the entrepreneurial world, poorly using your creativity costs you money." "There's this very close tie between your creativity, your productivity, your focus and your revenue." Listen to Learn 01:31 - Getting to know Charlie Gilkey, Rapid 5 Questions 04:05 - Charlie's entrepreneurial journey 08:06 - Why 'Getting Things Done' doesn't work for creatives 12:23 - Logistics expert turned executive coach 15:47 - Start Finishing - What it's about and who it is for? 18:12 - Start Finishing - Genesis of the book 20:13 - Coaching vs. Teaching 24:56 - Awesome things coming up from Charlie Connect with Charlie Grab your copy of Start Finishing ProductiveFlourishing.com Follow Charlie on Twitter! Looking for the Transcript? Episode 116 Grab the bonus segment! Watch the complete workshop where Charlie lays out some actionable strategies from Start Finishing and shares exactly how to plan your next project. Grab it here: https://www.crowdcast.io/e/charlie-gilkey-janelle-allen/register
Hey family! This week’s episode is the live interview from my workshop with Charlie GIlkey, logistics expert turned executive coach, author, and founder of Productive Flourishing. He’s here to talk about his new book, Start Finishing, and how you can finally finish all of those projects you’ve been wanting to dig into.
All great ideas don't matter. What matters is our execution, our ability to pull them into light, ship them in the marketplace, and make the difference that they are going to make.
Before becoming an executive coach, Charlie worked in the Army as a Joint Force Military Logistics Coordinator, where he mastered the skills of planning and strategizing. In his book, Start Finishing, he shares his expertise and the 9-step method to re-align your life with the things that matters most. Charlie believes that we’re all meant to do our best work, and a core piece of that is finishing what we start. The strategies in his book help creatives work through three major emotions that hold them back (overwhelm, exasperation, and regret) so they can live the life they want, do the work they love, and start finishing.
Episode Quotes
“The main thing that we have to focus on as creatives is not tasks, but projects.”
"For me, planning is a creative process; strategy making is a creative process."
"In the entrepreneurial world, poorly using your creativity costs you money."
"There's this very close tie between your creativity, your productivity, your focus and your revenue."
Listen to Learn
01:31 - Getting to know Charlie Gilkey, Rapid 5 Questions
04:05 - Charlie's entrepreneurial journey
08:06 - Why 'Getting Things Done' doesn't work for creatives
12:23 - Logistics expert turned executive coach
15:47 - Start Finishing - What it's about and who it is for?
18:12 - Start Finishing - Genesis of the book
20:13 - Coaching vs. Teaching
24:56 - Awesome things coming up from Charlie
Connect with Charlie
Grab your copy of Start Finishing
Looking for the Transcript?
Grab the bonus segment!
Watch the complete workshop where Charlie lays out some actionable strategies from Start Finishing and shares exactly how to plan your next project.
Grab it here: https://www.crowdcast.io/e/charlie-gilkey-janelle-allen/register
Charlie Gilkey: In the entrepreneurial world, poorly using your creativity costs you money, right? Or using it better makes you money. Either way, there's this very close tie between your creativity, your productivity, your focus, and your revenue.
Janelle Allen: Welcome back to Level Up Your Course, where we pull back the curtain on what it takes to create learning that transforms lives. You will hear stories from business owners like you who share their success and their struggles. This is not where you come to hear passive income myths, friend. This is where you learn the truth about building a profitable learning platform. I am your host, Janelle Allen, and this is today's episode.
Hey family, it’s Janelle. So what you are about to hear is an interview, a live interview and workshop that I did with Charlie Gilkey. This is the first time that I've ever done anything like this and it was so much fun. Charlie, if you're not familiar with his work, he's a logistics expert, turned executive coach, and now he's a published author. He's just published a book called Start Finishing, which is a productivity system for people. Well, for pretty much anyone, but especially people who want to do their best work. So dig in, enjoy, and let me know what you think. I'll see you in the outro.
Today, if you're just joining us, I'm speaking with Charlie Gilkey. He is the founder of Productive Flourishing, author of Start Finishing, and we're here to talk about his work as well as his new book and get some insight into who it's for and how it helps. Charlie, welcome to the show.
CG: I am so pumped to be here. If I may ask, if you're listening, watching along and we say something that's like really great. If you can give us either a TU for a thumbs up or like an HN for a head nod. It just helps us know that we're grooving and jiving. I mean I know I'm going to be with Janelle, but hey, we're doing this live, so throw up the love.
JA: Yeah, please do. Please do. All right, so Charlie, we have a tradition on the podcast since this is also going to be published on the podcast. I've got to do this. It is called the Rapid Five, five quick questions to help listeners get to know you. Ready?
CG: Go.
JA: Okay, first one. What did you have for breakfast?
CG: Two hard boiled eggs, beef jerky, a blueberry Larabar, and a yogurt and apple juice.
JA: That’s the biggest breakfast anyone has ever said on the show, so congratulations. I don't have a physical award for you, but I will figure something out.
CG: Hey, if it’s an award, I’ll go after it ...
JA: Number two, what is your favorite movie of all time?
CG: Ooh, that one’s super hard. Favorite movie of all time? I don't know that I have a favorite. I don't have a go-to that pops in the top of my head. I'm the worst with like the one favorite things. I can always do three or five. I can’t do one.
JA: Okay, pass. That's a pass. All right. Number three is a very serious question here on the show, so do you have your serious face on.
CG: I do.
JA: All right. The zombie apocalypse has hit. You have six minutes to grab three essential items to help you survive. Not people. All of your loved ones are good to go. You need three items. What do you pick?
CG: Water, a lighter, and a combat knife.
JA: Okay, I like that. I like that. Number four, fill in the blank. When I was a kid I wanted to be a blank.
CG: Teacher.
JA: Okay. All right. You're doing it. All right. Last one. What is the hardest lesson you have learned so far as an entrepreneur?
CG: Things take longer than you think they're going to take. And at any given moment you're probably doing better than you think you are.
JA: I think that's a real one, especially that last part there. And we always beat ourselves up. You know, something I like to tell people is give yourself some grace. You're not racing against anyone else. You're just trying to improve upon, you know, your former self. So do it. You're doing it, you're doing it. So that is a great segue into talking about you, Charlie, your entrepreneurial journey. How did you get here? How did you get to be Charlie Gilkey, author, executive coach, founder of Productive Flourishing? How did you get here?
CG: So what's super funny about this is I was reading a post that I wrote back in 2008 and was the first post where I publicly said, I'm starting to think that Getting Things Done doesn't work so well for us creative people. Right? And I just say that cause that's 2008 and I look, it was one of those points where it's like, I don't remember saying that at the time so clearly, but it's like not a straight line to start finishing in the book. But that was really the first time where I was like, this ain't working. This is not just me. It's not just, you know, that sort of scenario. It's for a group of us, it ain't it.
But to roll back in the mid two-thousands, I was simultaneously an Army joint force military logistics coordinator, which is a mouthful. But that's basically making sure the Army, Navy and Air Force were on the same sheet of music about logistics operations so that when one team drops something somewhere, there be another team to pick it up and they'd take it to where they need to. And we were all on the same schedules and all on the same priority. So you think that was a well-oiled machine, and it was because guys like me are doing all the oiling to make that happen. So I was doing that jam at the same time that I was completing a PhD in philosophy. So I'm an ethicist and social philosopher by training. I had recently come back from Operation Iraqi Freedom, and I'd bought a house with my wife and I was trying to be, you know, a good husband, a good homeowner and trying to renovate this house, trying to complete my PhD, doing the Army thing. And you know, it sounds so funny at the time because I'm like, man I got to get my stuff together, I'm not getting it all done. Like what am I doing with my life?
And I just realized that I had a lot of things that I wasn't getting to, and it was really challenging for me because on the one hand I can move hundreds of people and thousands of pieces of equipment and manage, you know, a lot of a combat theater and logistics, but this 5,000 word essay was kicking my butt. Like, what's up with that? Right? And so I did what any teacher and officer would do and I was like, okay, I'm not the only person with this problem. Right? I've studied philosophy enough to know that like most problems are common problems and universal problems. We just think it's our stuff. So (inaudible 00:06:21) reading all the literature, The Seven Habits to Getting Things Done, the whatever it was at the time. And I was like, eh, like it's sort of there, but it's sort of not.
And so I started filling in the gaps between what I had learned from philosophy and what I learned from the military and Boy Scouts. And that started the foundations of my work, which became Productive Flourishing, which got distilled into Starting Finishing. Being a business consultant and executive coach was never on the roadmap. I fell into it backwards and with great… it took a lot of tugging for people to actually get me to do it. Basically I started just out of fear of embarrassment at a certain point. And that's sort of grown over the last decade or so into (inaudible 00:07:03) very different things.
But it all revolves around some of the really fun paradoxes of like one, why is it that the things we most want to do, we don't get to? Two, why is it that we're naturally wired to be motivated by progress? We're naturally wired to do great work with friends and people we love. We're naturally wired to make people happy, and yet when it comes to teams, we fall down all the damn time, right? That setting, which we think would be conducive for us doing great work is the very setting that gets us upside down. And so most of my day I'm working through like those types of apparent paradoxes and really what's going on here, what's in the way of us doing these things that were very primally wired to do?
JA: Yeah, so there's a lot to unpack there. I love when I asked that question because people just give these huge, you know, this huge spans of life and distill it down to like a couple minutes. But the first thing that popped up, you said Getting Things Done, which for anyone who doesn't know what that is, can you explain what that is really quickly?
CG: Yeah. Getting Things Done is one of the canonical books in personal productivity. David Allen, in many ways in the early two-thousands catalyzed a movement around us just getting stuff done, which was separate than sort of The Seven Habits, Stephen Covey approach, which is much more about principles. And so I would say that in many ways David Allen really kicked off this personal productivity conversation and there's been a lot that’s followed since then.
JA: Right. And so you felt that that system did not work for creatives. Can you talk about why? What is it about it that doesn't work?
CG: Yeah, so I'll be brief here. First I want to give mad respect for David in his work. It was really a big inspiration, so I'm not just going to bash the crap out of it. And what I will say is it's exceptionally good for managers who work in a corporate environment. That's what it was designed for. If we want to make it a sort of caricature, Getting Things Done is like boomer productivity. Whereas when you start looking at many of us Xers or millennials, like that rigid structure, that's not how we work. And more importantly, we have grown up in a world where it's creative knowledge work in the ability to convert ideas into marketable value that is really driving our careers. We can't just get a job and manage folks, manage things for six or seven years. We’ve got to both do that and do some deep creative or significant work while we're doing that at the same time. So the pressures are different and I would say higher.
And so what Getting Things Done will do is help people do is be hyper-reactive and keep things moving when other people are doing the work. And it's really great at tasks, and it's really great at sort of getting all of the things on your brain out of your brain and into a system. So that's what's great about it. Where that sets us up is there are a few rules, like there's one that I can point to like the two minute rule. And the two minute rule is basically if something comes to your brain and you can just get it done in two minutes, don't put it on the list, don't put it on the to-do list, just do it and move on. Sounds great. Except how many times have we creative people lost flow because we're like, oh, I'm just going to jump and do the two minute thing and then you click on something else or you completely lost the thread of whatever you were doing.
You completely lost that hours of mojo that you put up on doing that. So for instance, in the context of making a course, it seems like one of those quick things to just jump in to see what the top courses Udemy are in your thing. It seems like you could do that in a couple of minutes.
JA: Yeah.
CG: Do it. You know it was going to happen. Right? Four hours later you'll be in a clique hall. You have jumped from Facebook to email to Twitter, you might have already started your first glass of wine because everyone else is killing it and you're not. All of those things start happening with just that sort of one thing. And so that particular rule made it such that we could be hyper-distractible in an environment where we're already hyper-distractible.
JA: Right.
CG: Right. There's some other aspects like keeping up with context and there's a lot of meta-productivity that's part of the system that doesn't actually drive the work forward. But again, what I started looking at was, okay, the main thing that we have to focus on as creative people is not tasks but projects. How do we tie these week-sized projects to bigger projects and keep momentum on them and keep it going? Because all of us here, everyone here, I bet can rock the crap out of it to -o list and get to the end of the week and realize that the stuff that mattered most didn't go anywhere. Right? And so that's really what I started to notice is like I'm really good at the apparent motion that this system provides, but it's not making me get some progress towards where I'm most trying to go.
JA: It’s so interesting, you know, that we're doing this today because one of my clients had just posted something about focusing on tasks and I had this visceral reaction, No! For me that was a huge shift, when I stopped looking at a long list of to-do's and started grouping things into projects and seeing, you know, what I needed to do to move the project forward. It just changed everything. So I absolutely agree with you and I can't wait to get into some practical tips. So Charlie, I have to ask before we start talking about the book, I'm trying to see this transition from logistics veteran to executive coach and author. Like there's this creative thread that one wouldn't think jives with what you were doing when you were in the armed forces. So it was creativity always a part of you and what you were working towards. Can you talk about that?
CG: So it was really my mid-twenties before I started identifying as a creative person, which is really funny because creative for me meant more like that black beret creativity, you know, where you're like painting and smoking cigars and writing novels and you know, that sort of side of things. Not this very functional problem solving, sort of what I call everyday creativity. And so, so much of my job as a logistics officer was that type of problem solving route calls focused like how are we going to thread this needle with these constraints? And so for me, planning is a creative process. Strategy making is a creative process. Figuring out how you're going to align these resources is a creative process. Much like playing a real time strategy game is, right, in that same way.
And so that was, you know, I've been, I grew up in a military family, I've been in Boy Scouts since I was six. That was always a part of like basically here's what we get. We need to go there. How are we getting from here to there? Right? And so in many ways that was a real natural transition into executive coaching and business coaching cause it's the same thing. You got this, here's how it's arranged, here's where it needs to go, how are you going to go from here to there in the timeline that you have to solve all the problems that you have along the way? So it's really the same thing. Just add in the people element of things, which I learned again through just my background and through being in the military through leadership. So it was just kind of like all those things that American tax dollars have paid quite nicely for me to have just applied in a slightly different context. But human problems sounds like a tautology.
Human problems are human problems. Like there's not that much difference between some of the patterns we were seeing in the Army versus the patterns that we see in the business world versus the patterns that we see in the entrepreneurial world. The chief difference, especially when we apply it to the entrepreneurial world is two things. In the entrepreneurial world, poorly using creativity costs you money, right? Or using it better makes you money. Either way, there's this very close tie between your creativity, your productivity, your focus, and your revenue.
JA: Yes.
CG: Right? Whereas in other places, showing up and punching a clock may actually be what gets you paid. Right? We don't have that luxury as entrepreneurs. There's not a clock we could punch. There's stuff we have to ship and things we need to sell to make that money to bring home the bread. So that's the main difference. But it's not a difference in human patterns as much as it is it just pulls into focus the intensity of being a creative on demand.
JA: Yeah. Really quickly before we move on, I love how you frame just recognizing the thread between the work that you used to do and the work that you do now. I think Pam Slim just recently wrote a book that talks a bit about that. So, and she's going to be on the show in a few weeks by the way. So thank you. Let's transition now and talk about this wonderful book that you just published, Start Finishing. So what is it about, who was it for?
CG: Yeah. So real quick, you're right, Pam Slim wrote Body of Work. I reference it so much that I already have it (inaudible 00:16:00). So if you want to check it out and buy it, please do support my good friend and sister, Pam Slim. I'm in that book, so hat tip there. So what Start Finishing is about is bridging the gap between the life you currently live and the life you want to live with finished projects. Finished projects are that bridge, if you don't finish the right projects, you stay stuck in the life you currently have. Now it's about life and work, which is what's I think one of the different things about the book. Because we can apply the frameworks from it just as much as we can for the work of our lives as much as the life of our work. And so it is really for those of us who are in that place where we have too many ideas, not enough time and trying to figure out how to make it work.
What I would say is there are three major emotions that Start Finishing helps us work through as creative people. So one is overwhelmed, we're carrying too much, don't know what to do about it, and just stuck. Two is exasperation. An exasperation you feel when you've worked your butt off all week, but you're not anywhere forward. Or that exasperation you feel where you've done all the things and there’s been that person that's got that one project that she's been like a dog with a bone and they're lapping you multiple times over and you're just super frustrated about. And then the third is regret. Getting to the end of a week, month, quarter, year, decade, and realizing that the way you've spent this one precious life you have has not been in alignment with the things that matter most.
JA: Oh gosh, Charlie. Why are you calling all of us out like this?
CG: That’s what this is. That's what it's about, right? And so if you extract away like all of the systems, all of the productivity stuff, all of the actions, all of that sort of tactical stuff, that's really the conversation that we're having. How do we as these soulful, creative, compassionate people do better about, you know, managing our overwhelm, setting better expectations that don't lead us to exasperation, and use the time that we have in the way that we feel, you know what, I didn't do all the things, but I did the things that matter most.
JA: Yeah, absolutely. So where did the genesis of this book come from? I know that you said, you know, just with your body of work, you've always been tugging at this, but was there a moment where the light bulb went off or you had so many people asking certain questions? Tell us about the genesis.
CG: Yeah, so the book, there are several things going on. One is it's really awkward when you've been doing this as long as I have and you don't have a go-to book you’re like, go read this book about that thing. And so I kept having to say like, go read Deep Work. But then go read this other one, but then like don't pay attention to that but then do that. And so it got super awkward cause there's always like, well here are the three books you need to read. But chapter four is awkward. So that's one is that I needed, I referenced for all of the work. Two is that, you know, just in my own business there's a book shaped hole in it. And so it's one of those things. And three because it's just, you know what? All you entrepreneurs, all you leaders, you want to come talk about strategy, you want to talk about team building, you want to talk about all these cool things, but we're not getting it done.
The foundations are not in place, and I'm tired of that conversation where we come up with all these great plans, all of these great ideas. The next day we have no idea what to do with it. We're helping each other. So you know what, I'm going to focus on foundations and that's what I've been doing until this book has been published. And right now I'm thinking like, what am I going to build on top of that? But that's really what it came to is it's like, look, as entrepreneurs, as leaders, as creative knowledge workers, all the great ideas don't matter. It's our execution and our ability to pull them into light and ship them in the marketplace, make the differences they're going to make and then weave into, excuse me, roll into the next one. That's what matters. And so Start Finishing was in many ways me eating my own damn cooking and focusing on the foundations before I just moved onto something else and you know, had all the fun (inaudible 00:20:08) talks of strategy and marketing and all those things.
JA: Cool. I want to ask you one question because you have been an executive coach, consultant, but you also, you do have a course and now you have a book. In your opinion, what are the differences in your approach to coaching versus teaching?
CG: So I will say that I am a nontraditional coach. Many coaches would say that I would be a terrible coach because it comes to executive coaching and entrepreneurial coaching. It's not true that the client has the answer. Right? And my coaching and personal coaching, that's one of the sort of myths that you don't mess with is that the client, they have the answers and your job is to help them find it. As an entrepreneur and executive, sometimes you just don't know what the hell is going on and you can't see it. Right? Literally there is a knowledge gap or there's an experience gap that there's no like…So that's a sort of meta rant. But I had to start that when it comes to the difference between executive coaching and teaching. So when it comes to coaching, there is this sort of co-discovery as you go along between, you give a little bit of information, it orients the client to their challenge and then they can start problem solving their way out of it. But there’s that tug there.
Whereas with teaching, you're taking someone on a conceptual journey. There's a start, there's a middle, there's an end, and at the end of that journey, whatever you have promised them, they should be there. And I think you know when it comes to courses, there's a lot we can talk about when it comes to this, but some of the things that I've seen people not do really well is it's like, well I got a lot of stuff and a lot of information I want to talk about so I'm just going to create a course. That's a terrible reason to make a course. Right? The reason you want to make a course is because you have a way of getting someone from point A to point B, and information is the way to get them there. If you don't know what that point A is that point B is what you've got is a lot of information. You don't yet have a course and I know that's simplifying a lot of things, but there is that very much like who owns the journey? And from a teaching format, the teacher in many ways does own that journey. Whereas from a coaching format, the client is much more in the driver's seat of that journey.
JA: I like how you put that. And you know, to add onto what you said about information, it's absolutely right. You know, one of the reasons why I strongly advise people to start with services before they create a course is because you develop your own process for doing something after a while. You start to see the patterns of what people ask for over and over, and eventually you're going to figure out a way to package up your answer. And ultimately that leads you to having your way of getting from point A to point B. Because often, information is not the answer. I've written about that. I've ranted about it. People don't just need information. Information is everywhere. What they're looking for is to your point, a guide to get them where they want to go. So they're looking for transformation, not information. So I just wanted to add on to that cause it's something that I'm passionate about.
CG: Yeah. If I can jump in here real quick, and this is not plugging on product, but it's an instantiation of that. My first product was a product called email triage and it's basically a process, my system agnostic process for helping people work through their inbox and get some peace and sanity with it. And where this came up is I had said on dozens of calls with clients where whether they're executives or whether they are entrepreneurs they’re like, Charlie, I just can't think because I got 200 emails in my inbox and I don't know what to do about it. I just, and I was like, well, it sounds like we're not talking about strategy today. It sounds like I'm sitting here while you go through your email and we're going to go through this in a strategic way and figure out what's going on. And so with sitting through dozens and dozens of meetings with clients, I’m like oh, there are trends here to your email.
Like you don't need that. You do need that. Why do are you subscribed to that? You haven't read that in a year. Get rid of it. Right? All those types of things where it's like, you know what, I'm glad to have done that and my clients do not need to be paying me what they're paying me to sit with them to do this guided process that I've now done. So I created a course that is actually a guided process, where Janelle is literally like, here's what you're doing. Go do this, pause this now and when you're done un-pause this and we're going to go to the next step. So I did whatever I could to like recreate that experience and again, not trying to plug that, but it was to your point like this process works, and in some ways are great reason to do a course is because you know that there's a broader audience of people who needs to go through that same process and you don't want to be the person like Flinstoning them through that entire process. Like, okay, I'm going to get in the car with you. We're going to go through this. Like courses can do a really great job of that.
JA: Yeah, yeah. I have some final three questions for you. First one, what's next? I know you're on book tour. Is anything exciting outside of the book tour coming up?
CG: I don’t know. I mean I put myself on a new project diet until February, just because there's just so much of airing out this book launch that I need to focus on. So I've got another book working on me, but I don't know if it's going to be the one that I decide to do next. That's it. I mean I'm okay in the spirit of time, like not knowing.
JA: Taking your own advice.
CG: I try.
JA: Where can people find out about you and your work?
CG: So you can find out about me@productiveflourishing.com. Pretty much all roads lead to Productive Flourishing cause I'm not good about maintaining multiple websites. If you're just focused on the book, so you can go to startfinishing book.com. PS, it's going to redirect you back to PF, but that's okay. And so those are the two places. If you're on social media, I'm most active on Twitter @CharlieGilkey, although I am trying to make better friends with Facebook at this point.
JA: All right. Facebook’s a hot button right now. We're going to dodge that bullet. So last question for you, one that I ask all of my guests. What's your why? Why do you get up and do this work?
CG: I want people to live their best lives.
JA: Nice and concise. I love it. Thank you for being here. Thank you everyone for hanging out and everyone who popped in, this was great. This is the first time we're doing this. Charlie, thank you so much for coming and sharing your expertise. All right, we will see you next time.
CG: Thanks so much for having me.
JA: Hey family. I hope that all is well in your world and I hope that you enjoyed that interview with Charlie Gilkey. Charlie is a super smart guy and especially when it comes to the field of productivity, really just getting things done, project management, all of that good stuff. So if that is your jam, you want to learn more from Charlie and in a moment I'll tell you how you can do that. But really quickly at the top of this episode, I said that this was a live interview. In fact, this was the first time that we did something like this. First time I've ever done a live podcast interview, and it was a lot of fun, but there was more. We didn't just do the podcast interview that you just heard. We also did a workshop portion where Charlie got to dig in and share expertise. In fact specifically methods from his new book Start Finishing, which is all about helping you to finish the work that matters, strategies and tactics to get work done.
So if you want to check out the workshop portion, here's what you need to do. Head over to the show notes. I've made this super simple. There's no extra link that you need to go to. You can find out more about Charlie and get access to the workshop by just checking out the show notes. And you can find those by heading over to zimcourses.co/116. Once again, that is zimcourses.co/116 for episode 116, which this is. All right, that is my time. I will see you next time. All right, my friends, that is my time. Remember before you can level up your course, you must first level up your mind. As always, thank you for hanging out with me for another great episode. I do not take it for granted. I am Janelle Allen, and this has been Level Up Your Course. Peace.